You've not answered my point:
Why didn't the EU negotiate a free trade deal in good faith, so their citizens wouldn't have to pay import duties/tax on UK goods?
Our NHS (n/G)
- Thread starter Buddha
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Why didn't the EU negotiate a free trade deal in good faith, so their citizens wouldn't have to pay import duties/tax on UK goods?
chris who
Vital Champions League
My point is would you be happy with the Scottish slagging us off then wanting independence and all the benefits of remaining part of the UK without paying a only in?
The EU prepared for Brexit we didn't because our government were trying to convince the British people and themselves that no damage would be done.If the boot was on the other foot and we were remaining members and another country was leaving the union would you want them to retain membership benefits without being members?
You originally replied to my point, so please address my point.
Why did the EU negotiate in bad faith, which disadvantaged their citizens?
chris who
Vital Champions League
Because they were defending the integrity of the single market. We had stuck two fingers up at them .Our government wanted no deal and got it .But we don't have the facilities to check goods years after Brexit .The EU do.So our goods get checked imports generally don't.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
So we have the facilities to check goods from every other corner of the world (as we have always done to a level) but just not the EU?
If within the EU there are said to be no checks on the physical goods themselves whatsoever, I presume everything from arms to knives to drugs to invasive species can pass effortlessly from state to state. Something to strive for, I suppose.
As long as the paperwork checks out, of course.
If the EU has to bully/negotiate in bad faith with an ally, simply to deter its citizens from leaving, it can't be that good an organisation to be in?
chris who
Vital Champions League
We simply do not have the space or the staff to check goods .No extra provision was made for the massive increase in the checkd which previously took place in the first country of arrival.So we have the facilities to check goods from every other corner of the world (as we have always done to a level) but just not the EU?
If within the EU there are said to be no checks on the physical goods themselves whatsoever, I presume everything from arms to knives to drugs to invasive species can pass effortlessly from state to state. Something to strive for, I suppose.
As long as the paperwork checks out, of course.
A arrival from Africa into Spain for example would be checked there for the whole EU regardless of the final country of delivery within the EU.
Now outside the EU the Spainish would no longer check our goods so there is far more goods needing checks .Smugglers can pass stuff at will as we simply don't have the ability to check goods a small percentage get checked.
Meanwhile our exports do get checked by EU countries.
Far from strengthening our borders Brexit has had to opposite affect.The government doesn't want to spend anything on Brexit so the current mess is set to continue all be it there is a plan to increase checks by a minimum amount.
PuB
Vital 1st Team Regular
Has anyone apart from me noticed certain food products are now marked with Not For EU, does that mean a decline in standards?
Also Chris is correct. Something checked in Spain, Italy, Ireland and so on, wouldn’t need checking again if coming in to the UK. Surprisingly enough the government have failed to recruit enough people to do it in our ports. The issue of Freeport’s will become big soon, but I’m not going in to that now.
Also Chris is correct. Something checked in Spain, Italy, Ireland and so on, wouldn’t need checking again if coming in to the UK. Surprisingly enough the government have failed to recruit enough people to do it in our ports. The issue of Freeport’s will become big soon, but I’m not going in to that now.
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GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Could be, or it could mean that EU rules are ridiculously high and not worth the hassle, as they usually make up a few extra thousand nonsensical ones in Brussels every week while still encouraging live exports as well as the practices that allow Foie Gras and Weiner Schnitzel, and turning a blind eye to disease concerns that affect the Dutch flower exports when it suits them.
They are certainly not impervious to lobbying and backhanders.
And as for smuggling, I would not think that anything could be more encouraging than open borders with no physical checks between mainland countries.
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PuB
Vital 1st Team Regular
You used French and German words in that post so I can only assume you’re an awful Europhile…
Thank god we haven’t got those Dutch flower diseases here now, thank you everyone who voted for Brexit. Finally, a little bit of the freedom we were promised.
markinkent
Vital Football Hero
Well back to the topic of the thread.
My daughter spent around half of the last two years in hospital getting specialist care, all "free" at the point of use. While she was being assessed by the NHS I enquired about paying for it privately (I don't have insurance so this would literally be getting a bill). I was quoted around £23K a MONTH for her treatment. The NHS agreed to fund her care and on her second admission was admitted to the same private hospital I had enquired to. I just checked my tax record on the HMRC app and in last year I paid £23,786 in tax and NI - even if all my money went to the NHS, which it doesn't, I would only have covered one months bill.
It won't surprise you that I am very grateful to the NHS and whilst it needs improving (efficiencies) the overall model of providing care to those who need it, when they need it, without charge, needs protecting for future generations.
If it means we all pay more then so be it - I would be happy to. I'm not against the NHS using private care companies if that's the most cost effective method but if you look at my example above - its hard to believe that is (albeit I doubt of the NHS paid them £23K a month).
I suspect a combination of NHS/paid for service will be the way to go, although Dentistry seems to have gone too far the other way.
I'm a type 2 diabetic and pay for my Libre2 implant. Some argue they should be on the NHS (they are for type 1s) but the implant makes it easier for me to manage my blood sugar not essential. I choose to wear one (£100 a month) its not essential.
Bottom line is we should protect the NHS and hopefully getting rid of the Tories will be the first step on its recovery.
My daughter spent around half of the last two years in hospital getting specialist care, all "free" at the point of use. While she was being assessed by the NHS I enquired about paying for it privately (I don't have insurance so this would literally be getting a bill). I was quoted around £23K a MONTH for her treatment. The NHS agreed to fund her care and on her second admission was admitted to the same private hospital I had enquired to. I just checked my tax record on the HMRC app and in last year I paid £23,786 in tax and NI - even if all my money went to the NHS, which it doesn't, I would only have covered one months bill.
It won't surprise you that I am very grateful to the NHS and whilst it needs improving (efficiencies) the overall model of providing care to those who need it, when they need it, without charge, needs protecting for future generations.
If it means we all pay more then so be it - I would be happy to. I'm not against the NHS using private care companies if that's the most cost effective method but if you look at my example above - its hard to believe that is (albeit I doubt of the NHS paid them £23K a month).
I suspect a combination of NHS/paid for service will be the way to go, although Dentistry seems to have gone too far the other way.
I'm a type 2 diabetic and pay for my Libre2 implant. Some argue they should be on the NHS (they are for type 1s) but the implant makes it easier for me to manage my blood sugar not essential. I choose to wear one (£100 a month) its not essential.
Bottom line is we should protect the NHS and hopefully getting rid of the Tories will be the first step on its recovery.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Re this bit, who are a) "those who need it" and who are the "we" b) "we all pay more"?
Is a) anyone that can get to a British hospital, and is b) the British taxpayer?
markinkent
Vital Football Hero
In simplest terms yes for emergency care yes.
If we want to seek reimbursement then thats fine but after we've saved their lives.
Seems the decent thing to do
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Yes, and I think you will find most Europeans can pronounce "Roast Beef" as well.
And, yes, I am a europhile and loved the straight forward Common Market as a trading tool before Jacques Delors and others politicised it.
Even some European leaders, including Hollande I think it was, were quoted as saying that the modern EU was not suited to the needs of the UK. Best for both sides that we parted.
This goes more in to the Dutch agricultural issues that the EU allow, mainly aimed at flower production which is obviously of no concern to you:
Dutch citizens want the 30 most toxic pesticides banned
A new opinion poll shows that 70% of Dutch people think that pesticide use should be reduced by 50% by 2030. The same survey shows that 73% of Dutch people think the 30 most toxic pesticides should be banned by 2030. Also, 65% think the government should better protect local residents from...
www.pan-europe.info
What have the Tories done to ruin the NHS?
markinkent
Vital Football Hero
Well they've been in charge for the past decade. Do you think its working as well as it should / could?
PuB
Vital 1st Team Regular
I’ve no idea. It seems to be working perfectly fine to me…
What do you think the Tories should/could have done?
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
I don`t know what the answer is, but it does seem that the current NHS is simply unsustainable and will bankrupt the UK if things don`t change.
I`m sorry to read that your daughter has been so unwell, Mark. Hope that her condition/reason for substantial hospital care, improves. All the best to you both.
